Hi All,

For years I use the Speed Start Init 3US program from E. Reuss for creating disks with a few games. Also this time. Just for the holidays I create a few disks with a few favorite games. (For some reason when I limit my choice of games to only a few titles I have much more fun with those games than when I have all my games in reach).

But now I run into a strange problem and that is that the DOS's I am used to use for writing to the initialized disk do not want to write on the extra sectors with Enhanced Format.
So I format my disk with the Speed Start INIT program to Enhanced Density.
But I use Toms Navigator or DOS 2.5 to write my games to this newly formatted disk.

Everything works fine, except that the last 224 sectors can't be written to.

I think I need BIBODOS to use these sectors, but I don't have BiboDos.

Is this indeed the right way to go (using BiboDos?) or is there something else going on. Is there another workaround?

Is BiboDos available somewhere? I am willing to pay for it, if it is not PD.

Thanks
Marius

Well,

DOS 2.5 and compatibles (BiboDOS, TurboDOS, SuperDOS, etc.) do have two VTOC sectors (sectors 360 and 1024) for a medium/enhanced (130k) Diskette. As far as I remember, Speed Start Init formats a disk in ED with only 931 or 932 sectors -and- just one VTOC.

So, whenever you try to use a DOS 2.5 compatible DOS to write to the Speed Start Init disk in ED format, it tries to read the first + second VTOC - and since the second VTOC is not there, you receive an Error message. Thats one of the reasons, why I do not use Speed Start Init anymore (but its been a long time, since I last used it, so I might be wrong with the SSI medium/enhanced format.)

There are however some DOS versions (mostly patches of DOS 2.0s) that can utilize this format, think they were named DOS 2.2 and/or DOS 2.3 and there were various utilities and patch-programs in Antic, Analog, Compute! and also Happy Computer for DOS 2.0s to give you more than 720 sectors, but errm, well, this never became a standard and always gave problems when using normal DOS 2.0s and/or normal DOS 2.5. So its better not to use such utilities and patches or patched DOS 2.0 versions to avoid any compatibility problems...

If I remember correctly, even the newest version of Speed Start Init uses this strange medium/enhanced format with just 931/932 sectors and only one VTOC. There are better gamedos versions nowadays, one of them is MyPicoDOS which supports 90k up to 16MB and has a barebone version without any speeders and a fast version with ultraspeed (as well as other versions). The disadvantage of MypicoDOS might be that it requires 30-40 sectors on a disk, but therefore you can put up to 64 files on that disk and it has a lower memory footprint than SSI (thus more programs will run with MypicoDOS than with SSI). Last not least MypicoDOS has an easier handling, you may format your disk with DOS, copy all files onto it and then init. MyPicoDOS or do it the other way around, by first formatting the disk and init. MyPicoDOs and then copying all files onto it. With SSI you always have to load SSI first, format and init. the disk with SSI, go back to DOS to copy the files, then load SSI again to create the long(er) gamedos names. (You can also create long filenames with up to 39 chars with MypicoDOS, but its not a requirement, since you can just use the available 8.3 filenames.)

P.S.: Abbuc has the rights to Bibo-DOS, maybe it is already available in the Abbuc PD library - but I guess, Bibo-DOS will have the same problems as DOS 2.5 writing to the SSI medium/enhanced diskette...

Hi CharlieChaplin,

Thanks for the detailed answer. That is interesting about the sectors and the VTOC.

The reason I wanted to use that SSI menu was that I find it cool that it shows up so fast. Floppy in 1050, atari on, and less than 2 seconds later there is already my diskmenu. Of course, you are right, it is not the easiest way of creating a disk.

I am familiar with MyPicoDos and I love that one too. Indeed more versatile yes.

I think it over!
Thanks for the advice!

p.s. I found a version of Bibo Dos on the internet, but that one -indeed like you wrote- is also not able to write to all the sectors.

Hi Marius,

Marius hat geschrieben:For years I use the Speed Start Init 3US program from E. Reuss for creating disks with a few games.
...
But now I run into a strange problem and that is that the DOS's I am used to use for writing to the initialized disk do not want to write on the extra sectors with Enhanced Format.
So I format my disk with the Speed Start INIT program to Enhanced Density.
But I use Toms Navigator or DOS 2.5 to write my games to this newly formatted disk.
Everything works fine, except that the last 224 sectors can't be written to.

I remember having the same problems in the past - Because I haven´t any other sources for utilities, I wrote a little tool by myself to avoid this behavior. You will find it down below - very simple coded, but it works. Just run it, insert a blank (or not longer used) disk in Drive #1 and the disk will be formatted in medium density and correctly written with DOS 2.5 VTOC - 1000 sectors free (the "lost" 10 sectors are used for the US Speed Start program).

After formatting the disk(s) just copy the programs you want and use the genuine Speed Start Init to enter the full names.

Regards, Juergen

That is AMAZING Jürgen!

Thanks a lot, I am going to try that out.

I made already two disks with the MyPicoDos now, and although I love that menu, I love the speed and simplicity of the Speed Start Init a lot, so I will definitely try this out.

Greetz
Marius

Marius hat geschrieben:I love the speed and simplicity of the Speed Start Init a lot, so I will definitely try this out.

Old habits are difficult to change, I guerss ...

That's why for quite some thirty years I use on disks the LOGOMENU.SYS from SpartaDOS. The same speed and simplicity, but one can sort different genres in different subdirectories and leaf through it easily.

tfhh hat geschrieben:Hi Marius,

I remember having the same problems in the past - Because I haven´t any other sources for utilities, I wrote a little tool by myself to avoid this behavior. You will find it down below - very simple coded, but it works. Just run it, insert a blank (or not longer used) disk in Drive #1 and the disk will be formatted in medium density and correctly written with DOS 2.5 VTOC - 1000 sectors free (the "lost" 10 sectors are used for the US Speed Start program).

After formatting the disk(s) just copy the programs you want and use the genuine Speed Start Init to enter the full names.

Regards, Juergen

Hi Juergen,

Today I tried your tool. Indeed it formats and everything appears to be fine (999+ sectors free in DOS 2.5) ... but as soon as I try to copy something to a fresh formatted disk, my 1050 goes nuts and I get Error 144.

I use DOS 2.5 for this and a real 1050.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!

Marius

Ok... no panic!

It turned out that my 1050 write protect circuit is malfunctioning. I have fixed it, and now everything works.

Great tool!

Hmmm

I was happy that I was able to format the disk, and that I saw the bigger amount of free sectors.

But now it seems that Speed Start Init 3US does not want to see the files on the extra space.

I formatted a fresh disk with your tool
I wrote several games on the newly formatted disk
6 of the games are in the Single Density space
and 1 of the games useds also the Medium Density space.
This last file has the < > in DOS 2.5 directory so you can see this files use ED space
I locked all games (including the one with the < >

Speed Start 3 INIT let me name the 6 games, but the seventh is skipped.

What is causing this?
Are there more versions of the tool?
Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks
Marius

Hmmm,

maybe it works, when you remove the "<>" in the Directory ?!? There was a tool in Happy Computer for this (and some PD tools exist also for this purpose)... it is the Directory Converter in 10/1987 of Happy Computer (written in TB XL afaik). You can find an ATR image with the file (and many other files) here: http://ataribasiclistings.mygamesonline ... er_1987.7z

Of course this would mean, a) you have to format the disk with Juergen`s tool in ED, b) copy all your files onto this DOS 2.5 ED disk and lock/protect them, c) remove the "<>" with another tool and d) use Speed Init. to create the gamedos names. A little awkward in my eyes...

I agree with you that that process would be terrible, but the final result is what counts for me. As soon as the final result is made, it's ready to use forever.

I find MyPicoDos fabulous, but I find it too slow on a stock 1050 to load before the menu finally is there.

Perhaps I stick with Single Density; I have plenty of disks ... but as an experiment, it is indeed an idea to remove those < >

Thanks!
M.

Tried your suggestion CharlieChaplin, and it works!

Amazing!
Thanks a lot!

Hi,

sorry for late answer. Marius, Andreas, thanks for pointing it out.

I never have had such problems, BUT in "the old times" I only have a Happy 1050 clone and only use "Happy DOS 1050". I think, with Happy DOS this behaviour didn´t occur.

I haven´t the sourcecode anymore (or better: couldn´t find it), so changes are not possible at this time.

Regards, Jurgen