MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

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MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Sleeπ »

I would like to present new device for Atari XE series which can play/record MIDI files on Atari 8-bit computer. Idea was taken from SIO2MIDI
but I decided to use CART/ECI port to communication with MIDI devices because in case I may use SIO independently for load/save data during MIDI working. In case possible it to use MIDI
sequencer based on Atari with direct access to FDD and/or other mass storage device, for example with AVG CART.

Additional features:
- possibility to play external MIDI source like MIDI keyboard or synthesizer,
- MIDI IN/MIDI OUT LED indicators on board,
- serial communication with 31250 b/s, 125 kb/s or 2mb/s with PC (using e.g. FT232 dongle),
- fully transparent for other cartridges/interfaces (based on D1XX/D5XX address decoder),
- equipped with S2 DREAMBLASTER is ready to play (similar like SIO2MIDI,

First issue of MIDIcar v1.0 is dedicated for Atari XE series but I’ll prepare version for XL series as soon as possible.

I hope, good player will be prepared soon :-)
MIDIcar-1.0.1-3dview.png
Wenn ein ABBUCer daran interessiert ist, bei der Softwareentwicklung zu helfen, stellt pancio ein Board zur Verfügung. Bei Interesse kontaktiere bitte pancio oder Sleeπ.

There is first couple of sounds from MIDIcar played on Atari...

https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51
Sleeπ

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hallo Leute

Haben wollen!

Tschüß

Mathy (der jetzt nicht mehr mit SIO2MIDI liebäugelt)
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello,

The first whole MIDI file played on MIDIcar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDyei72TeGE

Thanks PeBe!
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

Really great!
Good job 8-) !

Hope,
the MIDICar will bee soon available, seems to be a "Must have" thing ;)


Gtx.,
andY
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Thanks a lot!;

It's designed as Open Hardware so will be available after ABBUC HW Competition. Now I'm working on PBI version but I've some doubts regarding PBI pass-thru feature. Because of no possibility to have DIN-5/RCA ports on the right/left side (monitor/SIO) of PCB, I'll probably place these sockets on the back of the PCB. I'm considering use vertical PCB but I don't imagine many cables connected to this construction :-)
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von DjayBee »

Maybe this is stupid idea but I'll write it anyway:

Why don't you split MIDIcar into two boards?

Board one is a simple "port extender".
You can create two versions of a short board which plugs either into the PBI or ECI and has a matching PBI or ECI connector on the other end.
In the center of the board is a pin header which is connected to the bus and contains all signals of PBI/ECI.
You could perhaps add a cartdrige port as well so XE-users do not need to unplug the extender all the time (and have their carts plugged in vertically).

Board two is the MIDIcar.
It has a female pin header on its side and plugs vertically into the port extender.

This also solves the problem that the Atari with current MIDIcar design plugged in will become very deep.

The port extender also opens up the possibility to plug in other devices you or somebody else designs in the future.

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hello Pancio

When I used my BlackBox, most of the time I didn't plug the BlackBox directly into the computer. For some reason, I moved the computer around a bit, but because the BlackBox didn't move along, that would move the connectors relative to each other. So what I did was use the MIO extender (which more or less is a cartridge and ECI to PBI adaptor, made by ICD, with an extra cartridge port) and the ribbon cable CSS (the guys that made the BlackBox) intended to connect a BlackBox to an 800XL. That way I had a flexible connection between the XE and the BlackBox. XE - MIO extender- Flat/Ribbon cable - BlackBox.

Djaybee's solution seems to be a better solution as long as the vertical board isn't too large. But if it does, you might want to consider using an extender board that enables the user to use one or two devices via flat/ribbon cable.

Sincerely

Mathy
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hi,

Both ideas are very interesting. Now I'm considering to use short PCB with pass-thru adapter + 50 PINs IDC socket for flexible ribbon cable and other IDC sockets on MIDIcar end (like SCSI connections). Only one doubt... how long ribbon cable may I use to avoid ghosts and noises on the signal lines?

Best Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hello Pancio
pancio hat geschrieben:
01.05.2022 00:54
... how long ribbon cable may I use to avoid ghosts and noises on the signal lines?
I can't not tell you, but here's a picture of the MIO Extender and the flat cable that came with the BlackBox.
MIO Extender and Flatcable.jpg
Sincerely

Mathy
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

That's good think!

Is this documented somewhere or should I arrange this board from the scratch? Probably I should because it's little big and without IDC but I'm asking rather about connections (it's one to one or with some additional parts/crosses on the PCB). Very cool idea.

Sincerely,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von HiassofT »

Feel free to reuse the adapter boards we created for the Turbo Freezer 2011. Design files in eagle format are here:
https://www.horus.com/~hias/freezer/tur ... -files.zip

so long,

Hias

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Thank Hias,

I'll show my version soon :-)

... but in mid time... PeBe made Player:

https://youtu.be/WFJyBG27bxg

https://youtu.be/zaZjuhLNJ2A


Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Some other examples with newest PeBe's player:

https://youtu.be/qR9-LIQzzs4

https://youtu.be/A3Tuogv8Hg4

Now player can play MIDIs bigger than 42KB... the limit is 1MB.
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hi All!

Milestone reached! Player form PeBe can play more advanced (not all) MIDI files.
pebeplayer1.png
pebeplayer2.png
Alpha1 (Vangelis) MIDI on Atari8 by MIDIcar and DreamBlaster S2 Sound Module
Alpha1 (Vangelis) MIDI on Atari8 by MIDIcar and and KORG NX5R

work in progress...
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Just a few news from my desk...

Version 1.0.1 based on CART/ECI was finished (better quality, good RCA sockets).
signal-2022-07-03-115407_004.jpeg
signal-2022-07-03-115407_003.jpeg

Just for fun I stocked two MIDIcar and try to play on both in the same time :-)

signal-2022-07-03-151845_004.jpeg
signal-2022-07-03-151845_005.jpeg
signal-2022-07-03-151845_006.jpeg
signal-2022-07-03-151845_007.jpeg
And they playing together :-)
signal-2022-07-03-145752.mp4
(19.24 MiB) 244-mal heruntergeladen
Next step... finishing XL version...

Regards,
Blazej/pancio
Dateianhänge
signal-2022-07-03-115407_005.jpeg
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hi Guys,

Our friend Kkrys made prototype case for MIDIcar. Someone of Atari users might see it on Lost Party 2022 (Licheń Stary, Poland). Of course, this is only prototype... we will plan to design a few models available with other colors variants too :-) The third photo shown that it's possible use MIDIcar with external memory expansion (512kb in case) so you don't need to modify stock Atari to enjoy most midi files :-)

midicar-prototype.jpeg
midicar-prototype-case-socket.jpeg
midicar-prototype-case-dev.jpg
Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

Very cool 8-) !

This is one of my favorite "must have" things in the near future 8-)

Gtx.,
andY
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Sure :-)

The device will be available after ABBUC competition in the public domain so anybody may do it yourself. Probably device will be on stock (maybe ABBUC Mitglieder-Shop?/PTODT?) We will see. Main goal is to promote MIDI on Atari8 because it's capable to play/receive MIDI data better than any other 8-bit (and many 16-bits) computer :-). Moreover, PeBe, which is the author of MCPlayer thinking on new software version which will be capable much more than now... I can't say more at this moment :-) Be patient!

There is still some tasks to do with PBI version of MIDIcar - it will be done soon.. we are wondering to develop new HW version with independent clock to leave POKEY timers... but at first I need to finish PBI version! :-)


Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hello Pancio

pancio hat geschrieben:
14.07.2022 21:59
... MIDI on Atari8 because it's capable to play/receive MIDI data better than any other 8-bit (and many 16-bits) computer :-).
Just out of curiosity: Why?

Sincerely

Mathy
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hi,

Of course it's my subjective assessment but...
- C64 has based on the same idea cartridge interface but without synth module and 'little' bit slower clock - it's mean that not so much MIDI data might be interpreted (Atari8 is faster)
- ZX has very easy and similar interface too but as above - without synth module - ZX MIDI - very rare and very expensive - maybe it's faster but I haven't opportunity to use it. Actually I based on this when designed MIDIcar :-)
- CPC 464/6128 - Ultimate Midi Board - very cool but most complicated. Equipped with S2 synth module. I don't know why it's so complicated - I need to investigate it to find hidden features :-)
- Amiga? Of course has simple MIDI interface connected to serial port - without synth module. Compare Atari8 with Amiga is like David vs/ Goliath...
- Only Atari ST is equipped with MIDI by default but without synth module as well...
- others? Maybe, I don't know...

So... we have big potential!

I release that software is the main key and the hardware is good as his software! I hope, Atari8 can more :-)

Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

Really cool stuff 8-) ....

Please let me know, if I can support you and your buddy PeBE in any way!

You can answer me here or drop me a line.

Cheers,
andY
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Anyone friend is willing to help to develop... I'll give rest from of development PCSs for free after ABBUC competition. So be in touch :-)

last case (hot print):
signal-2022-07-16-214225_001.jpeg
signal-2022-07-16-214225_002.jpeg
signal-2022-07-16-214225_003.jpeg
signal-2022-07-16-214225_004.jpeg
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello Friends!

I pretty finished MIDIcarPBI version. I'm not sure the pass-thru PBI slot will work OK but we will see. If anyone has notices or comments, please let me know. I plan to send this to production this week :-)
MIDIcarPBIv1.0-01.png


PCB dimension: 120x100mm. On the bottom we will have 50pin PBI connector (I haven't 3Dshape for it!)

what changed...
- according known issue with AVGcart I decided to add better wire on power lines,
- full address decoder added
- possibility to power device from external power supply (Atari 800XL power modification not needed)
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

A few renders - just for fun (or resin case in the future):
midicar_black_background.25.jpg
midicar_black_background.26.jpg
signal-2022-10-28-094030_003.jpeg
midicar_black_background.29.jpg
midicar.31.jpg
midicar.32.jpg

revision 1.0.3 will be equipped with TTL<>USB-C converter based on CH340E for high speed serial...
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

Looks really, really coooool :o 8-) !

Gtx.,
andY
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Sleeπ »

Nachdem auf der JHV die letzten Stimmzettel live abgegeben wurden, steht nun das Ergebniss fest:

Das MIDIcar von pancio wurde von den Club-Mitgliedern in Kategorie 2 eingestuft. Der ABBUC fördert das Projekt mit 300 €.

Damit wurde das Ergebniss von Kategorie "4", wie auf der JHV verkündet, auf "2" korrigiert!

Leider ist es am Samstag bei der Einpflege der vor Ort abgegebenen Stimmzettel zu einem Fehler gekommen, wodurch der Beitrag fälschlicher Weise in die Kategorie 4 eingestuft wurde. Bei der Nachbereitung der Ergebnisse ist der Fehler zum Glück aufgefallen.

Abgestimmt haben 43 Mitglieder, davon 27 online über das Formur der Homepage und 16 Stimmen wurden vor Ort abgegeben.

Herzlichen Glückwunsch an pancio!
Sleeπ

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hallo Marc

Das freut mich sehr. Kategorie 4 war definitiv zu niedrig!

Tschüß

Mathy
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Thank a lot for your voting and so high result - especially that this year MC was only one on competition. I'm very surprised because no one had chance to see MIDIcar in action and classify MIDIcar in proper category was very hard. I hope MC will be very common because it's very pleasure listening music from MIDIcar. I'll provide any detail on my page and here, so anyone will have opportunity make own MIDIcar him self. Of course I'll make a few pieces for some people which can't assembly PCB by hand. MIDIcar will be available on PTODT or A.B.B.U.C. shop (if possible) soon. I planned assembly about 20 pieces...

Again, many thanks to anyone which discussed with me and advised me with this project: Sleeπ, Mathy, andY, DjayBee, Hias, Kkrys, Erhard and others involved!

Mega special thanks I sending to PeBe - author of MIDI player - without him, project will be as empty shell.

I know.. it's not finish yet. I'm during production for PBI version... finally I planned to do it with PBI NewDevice, so the award will be consumed to prototyping new PCB :-)

Best Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Sleeπ »

I think this is a benefit of the fact that a video showing the project and its function is to be submitted. This way, without seeing the hardware "for real", everyone can get a better impression than just based on a text and pictures.
Sleeπ

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

pancio hat geschrieben:
01.11.2022 18:27
Thank a lot for your voting and so high result - especially that this year MC was only one on competition. I'm very surprised because no one had chance to see MIDIcar in action and classify MIDIcar in proper category was very hard. I hope MC will be very common because it's very pleasure listening music from MIDIcar. I'll provide any detail on my page and here, so anyone will have opportunity make own MIDIcar him self. Of course I'll make a few pieces for some people which can't assembly PCB by hand. MIDIcar will be available on PTODT or A.B.B.U.C. shop (if possible) soon. I planned assembly about 20 pieces...

Again, many thanks to anyone which discussed with me and advised me with this project: Sleeπ, Mathy, andY, DjayBee, Hias, Kkrys, Erhard and others involved!

Mega special thanks I sending to PeBe - author of MIDI player - without him, project will be as empty shell.

I know.. it's not finish yet. I'm during production for PBI version... finally I planned to do it with PBI NewDevice, so the award will be consumed to prototyping new PCB :-)

Best Regards,
pancio
Congratulations Pancio, for the great result 8-) !

I have not yet seen MIDICar live, but the first videos of you on YT made hungry for more :mrgreen: !
And of course I voted for you 8-) !

I hope, you´re making good progress with the project and please let me know,
I would very much like to buy one of the first devices from the first series of you (even if it´ s still "beta",
but I would like to test it live an can so spread out my own experiences too)...

So let me know, if it´s possible, to get a MIDICar in advance....
Simply drop me a PM, if you want ;).

Thx and BR,
andY
Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / My brandnew, experimental Album "Apocalyptic Symphony" / Zur Zeit keine POKEY´s ab Lager - Warteliste

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

MIDIcar SERIAL connector first usage:
signal-2022-11-03-182224_002.jpeg
signal-2022-11-03-182224_003.jpeg
midi-debug-via-serial.mp4
(27.85 MiB) 264-mal heruntergeladen
used as debugger for MIDI data.. but the most probably feature is very high transfer (theoretically 2Mb/s) It might be good alternative for SIO2PC...


EDIT:

Atari can play with MIDI... MIDI can play with POKEY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1GdcOoE6Oo

It's conversion from pokey2midi example played on MIDIcar
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

Good job, Pancio 8-)!

Keep on the great work!

Gtx.,
andY
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello again!

Good news... now MIDIcar can play music directly form IDE+ or compatible interface under SpartaDosX :-) This is huge milestone! Now comfortable is on high level... loading time is very short (a few seconds)!
MIDIcar_and_IDE+.jpeg
I found one bug on PCB... which was responsible for unexpected behavior with IDE+... modification on the existing PCB is very easy.. just push up 5th pin of MC6850 (/RTS signal)

https://youtu.be/h5Pq4HO0sL0
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello,

It's time to show all data regarding MIDIcar project. Project was made as Free Hardware under Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0, so anyone can download source files or prepared by me gerbers and will make own MIDIcar and enjoy! If any question, don't be hesitate and please ask me!

Project files are attached on the bottom of the topic: https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51

Have fun!
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello Friends!

I know... so much time... but it was happened :-) MIDIcar for XL computers :-) It's very stable and working without any issue with IDE+ under SpartaDosX...

Enjoy!
signal-2022-12-11-215030_003.jpg
signal-2022-12-11-215030_005.jpg
signal-2022-12-11-215030_006.jpg
signal-2022-12-11-222243.jpg
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von Mathy »

.
Hello Pancio

Just this weekend I was thinking that we hadn't heard from you in a while.

The MIDI Thru port is very close to the video cable. Won't that cause any problems if somebody tries to use plug a cable into the MIDI Thru port?

BTW have you tried to plug one MIDIcarXL into the back of another? And a third into the second? :mrgreen:

Sincerely

Mathy
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hi Mathy,

Yes... sorry I know - hobby is very important but family too :-) The reason why XL version was made is that I don't know when I'll finish common model for both XL/XE with additional middle board as we discussed in other very good topic: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1035

So, gerbers and full project files is available on my page - anyone is willing to do it by himself. I'm not sure, XL version will be made by us and available in shop. I may prepare three modules because have a free PCBs from prototyping process. If anyone is interested in - let me know privately.

According to MIDI ports positions... well it's compromise between PCB length and usability... there is no issue with connecting passthru cable but it's looking little bit strange :-)
signal-2022-12-12-111134.jpeg
BTW have you tried to plug one MIDIcarXL into the back of another? And a third into the second? :mrgreen:


not yet... because I've only one MCpbi assembled at this moment. Will try, be sure :-)

Regards,
pancio
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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von marius »

Hi all,

Great to be on the Abbuc Forum (again). I really love this project, and I really would like to get an announcement when it is ready to buy. I can not build it myself, but I love this.

I also hope that one day there will be a real (simple) sequencer written for atari 8bit in Cubase style, where one could record multiple tracks after each other and play them together.

I really do not want to miss this out, it would be a great way to get me use the atari 8bit again. The atari hobby has become a little bit silent here.

Thanks!
Marius

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von andymanone »

marius hat geschrieben:
21.12.2022 23:10
Hi all,

Great to be on the Abbuc Forum (again). I really love this project, and I really would like to get an announcement when it is ready to buy. I can not build it myself, but I love this.

I also hope that one day there will be a real (simple) sequencer written for atari 8bit in Cubase style, where one could record multiple tracks after each other and play them together.

I really do not want to miss this out, it would be a great way to get me use the atari 8bit again. The atari hobby has become a little bit silent here.

Thanks!
Marius
Hi Marius, welcome!
Nice to meet you here (again) ;) .

I will stay in contact with Pancio and PeBe and follow the progress of the project and also comment here,
´cause I´ m now also responsible for the hardware area here and I am also personally extremely interested in the project 8-) .

Cheers,
andY
Ressortleiter Hardware - Save the past and use the future!© andYManOne / Demozoo / My brandnew, experimental Album "Apocalyptic Symphony" / Zur Zeit keine POKEY´s ab Lager - Warteliste

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Re: MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

Beitrag von pancio »

Hello all,

Thanks Marius for interesting with MIDIcar.and thanks andY for your support and involvement... I'm sorry for this situation. I'm not able to make more than a few pieces because of lack of time. I will help with technical knowledge if someone decided to build his own piece or pieces for others. There is no limitation and no restriction for MIDIcar. I'm willing to spend time with new projects rather than assembly more pieces.. but I may promise, 10-15 MC will be made by my colleague Kkrys and will available on the market early January. I hope!

Little announce according MCplayer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95PjqzHXih0

Just one more notice... MIDIcar PBI version is capable to play with SIDE2, IDE+ or AVGcart together! :-)
signal-2022-12-14-133310.jpeg

Regards,
pancio
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