MIDIcar – independent, easy to use MIDI player/recorder

[PeBe]

I downloaded PeBes midicar player bundled with MIDICar driver copied it and a .mid file to a DOS 2 disk but midicar player doesn't even start. There is an error message but I cannot read it because it vanishes too fast

Hi patjomki

The fast disappearance is a bug in the MCP loader - I've already got it fixed in development
I'll try to help, but I need a moment and some information:
What version of MCP did you download?
Under which DOS are you trying to run?

The rest will come with time

[pancio]

Hi,

I sent PM to you but general... MCPlayer working under SpartaDosX in X mode (to avoid address conflict with SDX). When you start under SDX, just run MCP like:
X MCP158.COM or X MCP158.COM /AD580 - address shall be the same as set on jumpers. First method using autodetect for MC, second given address manually. As I know, is possible to use MC under DOSX in the same method but need to confirm with PeBe...

Best Regards,
pancio

[patjomki]

What version of MCP did you download?
Under which DOS are you trying to run?

DOS 2.5

I downloaded both mcp1.6a-no-bundled-driver.zip and mcp158a-bundled-MIDICar-driver.zip.

[patjomki]

Hi,

I sent PM to you but general... MCPlayer working under SpartaDosX in X mode (to avoid address conflict with SDX). When you start under SDX, just run MCP like:
X MCP158.COM or X MCP158.COM /AD580 - address shall be the same as set on jumpers. First method using autodetect for MC, second given address manually. As I know, is possible to use MC under DOSX in the same method but need to confirm with PeBe...

Best Regards,
pancio

Well SDX is a bummer as I don't like it very much but will try it.

Problem is, I have SDX installed with my U1MB, but when I enable it, it doesn't "see"my AVG Cart. I could plug in my SIO2SD back again but AVG Cart is so much better.

[pancio]

Hi,

Just a short movie how to run MCP under SDX loaded from AVG cart:

simplescreenrecorder-2023-09-09_14.12.04.mp4

(9.45 MiB) 49-mal heruntergeladen

[PeBe]

For DOS 2.5 or no command/parameter line.

If you have the 'no-bundle' version it is necessary to run the driver before loading MCP, i.e.:

Code: Alles auswählen

L {return}
D:MIDICAR.DRV {return}
L {return}
D:MCP.EXE {return}

Of course, the drivers must be on the floppy

MIDI drivers.zip

MIDI Drivers for MCP

(1.47 KiB) 48-mal heruntergeladen

.

In the 'bundle' version, the driver is already 'tacked on' to MCP, so all you need to do is run MCP.EXE.
You can prepare such a 'bundle' version yourself. Just combine the corresponding driver and the 'no-bundle' version of MCP into one file.

XDOS

Personally, I recommend XDOS as it is much lighter and has some very useful features, which are:

1. batch files
2. the ability to modify memory
3. passing parameters to the program.

The first useful feature is obvious - the ease of running MCP.

To prepare such a file under XDOS, get a simple editor

Edit 2.5 (v1).xex

Text file editor

(2.09 KiB) 20-mal heruntergeladen

or from the command line type:

Code: Alles auswählen

D:>COP E; MCP.CMD {return} " {return} {quote - is required for XDOS batch files}
MIDICAR.DRV {return}
MCP.EXE {return}
{press CTRL+3 to exit}

To run such a file you only need to type its name (without extension), i.e.

Code: Alles auswählen

D:>MCP {return}

.

MCP.CMD.zip

Batch file for XDOS

(152 Bytes) 20-mal heruntergeladen

The second useful feature is the built-in, very simple monitor.

Why am I mentioning it

MIDICar does not perform a reset on its own when the computer is switched on.
This can result in it being detected incorrectly. To prevent this, under XDOS, issue two commands:

Code: Alles auswählen

D:>=xxxx 03 {in place of xxxx, enter the address you have set on the jumpers in MIDICar}
D:>=82 xxxx {as above}

MCP.CMD.zip

Batch file for XDOS

(152 Bytes) 20-mal heruntergeladen

Of course, you can add these two lines to a batch file, just before loading the driver.

What do these lines do
The first: "=xxxx 03" resets the MIDICar device.
The second: "=82 xxxx" sets (for the MIDICAR.DRV driver) the device address, so that no autodetection is performed.

The above two lines, are the equivalent of the Spartan POKE and (nota bene) under SDX they should also be executed.

For DOS with a command line or the ability to pass parameters to programs (e.g. XDOS, MyDOS, RealDOS, SDX) you can run MCP with additional parameters, including

Code: Alles auswählen

 /Axxxx 

This switch causes the above 'poke' to be executed by the MCP loader. In place of 'xxxx' enter the address set on MIDICar's jumpers

Code: Alles auswählen

 /Dx:drivername.drv 

For MCP 'no-bundle' allows the driver to be loaded from the indicated location, with the indicated name. For 'bundle' the integrated driver will be overwritten (in memory) by the one indicated in the switch.

MCP.BAT.zip

Batch file for SDX

(200 Bytes) 20-mal heruntergeladen

SDX

Here there is such a little catch with the naming of the switch itself, i.e. '/Dx:' Namely, the letter 'D' is - in addition to indicating the switch - also the name of the device, i.e. DISK. As you know, under SDX the drive/drive letters can be described in different ways, i.e.

D1: = A: = DA:
B: = D2: = DB:
DJ: = D10: = J:
etc.

As can be seen, with the short drive designations A: B: ... there will be a problem with the '/Dx:' switch. You can't write '/A:driver' Therefore, you have to use a 'long' notation wanting to refer to another drive, e.g.

Code: Alles auswählen

D:>X MCP.EXE /D5:>MCP>MIDICAR.DRV /AD580
D:>X MCP.EXE /DA:MIDIBOX.DRV
D:>X MCP.EXE /DH:MIDIMATE.DRV D1:

'X' is used ONLY under SDX!.

In the last example, the "D1:" at the end is not a switch, but a message to the MCP that, when started, it is to read a directory from the indicated drive, i.e. "D1:" You can indicate the track or also the name of the MID file to be read. Remember to ALWAYS specify the full path, i.e.

Code: Alles auswählen

DE:>GAMES>ATARI>
DE:>GAMES>ABUSE>01INTRO.MID
DA:APIDYA.MID

Unfortunately, the MCP loader does not search the PATH environment variable - this is to maintain compatibility with DOS other than Sparta DOS (X) Hence, it may not be possible or very difficult to achieve certain actions, such as associating files with the MCP program. Therefore, MCP has an integrated, very convenient file selector

I hope that I have not made a glaring mistake anywhere and that, the tips described here will serve.

PeBe

[patjomki]

I have to admit that I thought MidiCar was more plug&play.

Two things prevent me to use it at the moment:

1) lack of 5V on pin47 and 48 of the pbi bus on an 800XL (not so important as I also have an 600XL with u1mb although I would like to use it on my main machine (800XL))
2) need to "install" SDX or XDOS on my AVG Cart. That is the biggest disadvantage as I don't like any DOS environments (could have switched to a PC 30 years ago or so if it weren't so repulsive ).

Well think I have some work to do this weekend (installing SDX that is).

[PeBe]

If you want it, it's easy

XDOS is a pretty typical environment for ATARI (in my opinion) while SDX is the best environment for ATARI (in my opinion).

However. You can always prepare the environment to be optimal.

mcp.atr

(130.02 KiB) 26-mal heruntergeladen

The above attachment, is an image of a floppy disk.
It contains:
- XDOS
- Drivers
- MIDICar Player (dev version!)
- Batch files for XDOS and SDX
- ED Editor (without command line parser)

Using ED:
- Run ED.EXE
- CTRL+L Load file, after specifying its name
- Edit
- CTRL+S Save file
- ESC exit



Bear in mind that MIDICar is only in its third revision
It's a relatively simple MIDI interface for the small Atari, yet quite advanced.
I for one think that in terms of MIDI it's the best that could have been created

Let's remember that NEW requires CHANGE.

[patjomki]

Let's remember that NEW requires CHANGE.

Good news. On my 600XL MidiCar gets detected (bad news: on my 800XL not, so the hardware modification has to be done).

Unfortunately whatever I try to do, MidiCar player doesn't load any .mid file. They are recognized but when I press return instead of loading the file my computer immediately freezes. There isn't even the typical Atari loading noise.

Attract mode starts after a few minutes though but nothing else is possible. No Help key, no other keyboard input.

Have 1088KB Rambo configured in U1MB and Basic Off.

[pancio]

Hi,

If after load MIDI file MCP is frozen - means you probably use wrong address - try to use $D180 instead $D580 - I'm not sure which one is set in your device.

Best Regards,
pancio

[patjomki]

Hi,

If after load MIDI file MCP is frozen - means you probably use wrong address - try to use $D180 instead $D580 - I'm not sure which one is set in your device.

Best Regards,
pancio

Not it's not that it is frozen after loading, it just doesn't load. Deleted mcp.exe from the disk you provided and copied player 1.58a-bundled-MidiCar-driver onto the disk (renamed it to mcp.exe before) and this version plays Midi files like expected.

[pancio]

Great!

I hope, a few challenges are not made your opinion bad :-) You should to know, work with many MIDI files needs more than easy DOS - maybe you will change mind after while, regarding to SDX...

Best Regards,
pancio

[PeBe]

The hardware is not as bad as you think, the problem lies in its software, which although good, contains bugs

Try this image

mcp.atr

MIDICar Player Dev

(130.02 KiB) 21-mal heruntergeladen

.

I won't hide the fact that there's a problem that, I can't deal with, but... That's rather not for this thread.

In general, it would be useful, from a few posts back, to set up a new thread, as this one is about hardware, and we're talking about software!

EDIT:

All issues related to the MIDICar Player are very welcome under this thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2121

[patjomki]

I can confirm that this version now runs fine with my Midi Car.

PeBe also started a new thread just for the software:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2121&p=17329#p17329

Regarding user experience. Well, atm it is a little rough around the edges. Don't get me wrong, I am glad we have this device and hopefully it will be supported from a lot of developers in the future and of course it doesn't mean that it is a bad device. Just the opposite.

The biggest problem now is lack of documentation, though. There should be a repository where there is a user's and a programmer's manual (couldn't find one) and the above disk you provided.

And in the user's manual it should clearly be stated that SDX (or XDOS) is necessary at the moment and that for the XL version a hardware modification on the 800XL had to be done.

Apart from that I wish the pcb would be a little bit smaller.

[pancio]

Well...

I can't promise.. but in my mind cartridge version is possible. It's means smaller PCB. In fact that MC has some hardware limitation like no RESET pin, no interrupt.. I'm thinking to replace MC6850 to other IC. We will see.

Interesting facts from development:
- Actually MC6850 has interrupt pin called /IRQ but I had no one positive result to use it - probably it's working only if you are carry about additional signals than RX/TX like /CTS, /DCD which are not used by MC.
- MC has RESET as well but... only software reset called Master Reset...
- the same MC6850 chip is using in Atari ST :-)

[patjomki]

I have to admit that I thought MidiCar was more plug&play.

Two things prevent me to use it at the moment:

I have to add a third and fourth one unfortunately.

When using MidiCar with an 600XL there isn't enough space left for a FujiNet device because the pbi bus is nearer to the sio port than on an 800XL.

So I hoped to use it with my 600XL while waiting for my 800XL to return from adding 5V support on pbi but that would mean to lose FujiNet.

With my unmodified 800XL it also doesn't work (even if there were 5V on pbi) because the pbi cable of AVG Cart is too short for using it with MidiCar which means that I cannot use AVG Cart as a memory expansion.

[patjomki]

Well...

I can't promise.. but in my mind cartridge version is possible. It's means smaller PCB.

I'm against a cartridge version because the cartridge slot is already occupied by AVG Cart.

[DjayBee]

When using MidiCar with an 600XL there isn't enough space left for a FujiNet device because the pbi bus is nearer to the sio port than on an 800XL.

So I hoped to use it with my 600XL while waiting for my 800XL to return from adding 5V support on pbi but that would mean to lose FujiNet.

Plug a SIO cable in both the XL and the FujiNet to solve this problem.

[patjomki]

Plug a SIO cable in both the XL and the FujiNet to solve this problem.

Doesn't work as SIO cables have sockets on both ends and FujiNet has a socket, too, so they don't fit.

[Mathy]

.
Hello patjomki

Turn the FujiNet around! (Or buy the FujiNet Prof by Lotharek)

Sincerely

Mathy

[patjomki]

Turn the FujiNet around! (Or buy the FujiNet Prof by Lotharek

And where to put the SIO cable from AVG Cart?

Is FujiNet Prof already available?

Apart from that I think I just have to wait until my modified 800XL is back to use MidiCar and FujiNet together. In the meantime I just put MidiCar back into its box.

[Mathy]

.
Hello patjomki

And where to put the SIO cable from AVG Cart?

That could be a problem. Mozzwald once designed a gender changer. The Dual Receptacle version on this site. (Make sure you select the "Dual Receptacle" instead of the "Plug & Receptacle". The site will tell you they are "out of stock", but also that they are "made to order". And he lives on the wrong side of the Atlantic, so shipping ... )

Das könnte ein Problem sein. Mozzwald hat mal ein Invertieradapter. Die Dual Receptacle Version auf Diese Seite. (Aber wähle die "Dual Receptacle" (doppelte Buchse) und nicht das "Plug & Receptacle"(Stecker und Buchse). Die Seite wird dir sagen das das Teil "out of stock" (nicht auf Lager) ist, aber auch das dieses Teil auf Anfrage hergestellt wird. Er lebt aber auf der falschen Seite des Atlantiks, Versand wird wohl ... )

Is FujiNet Prof already available?

Lotharek's site says: "FUJINET PROF PREORDER (available after 2023-09-30)"

Lothareks Seite sagt: "FUJINET PROF PREORDER (available after 2023-09-30)" (FujiNet Prof Vorbestellung (Erhältlich ab den 30. september dieses Jahres))

Sincerely

Tschüß

Mathy

[DjayBee]

[And where to put the SIO cable from AVG Cart?

Das ist natürlich ein berechtigter Einwand.

Falls du mal etwas bei Lotharek bestellst, leg das hier mit in den Warenkorb, dann ist es kein Problem mehr:
https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=158

[patjomki]

Das ist natürlich ein berechtigter Einwand.

Falls du mal etwas bei Lotharek bestellst, leg das hier mit in den Warenkorb, dann ist es kein Problem mehr:
https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=158

So ein Ding habe ich tatsächlich noch hier im Schrank herumliegen. Danke für die Erinnerung, dass es damit geht.

Zwei Dinge halten mich allerdings davon ab.

1.) Die damit verbundene Unordnung auf dem Schreibtisch
2.) Dass die SIO-Ports von unten offen zugänglich sind. Liegt mal versehentlich was Metallisches drunter -> Kurzschlussgefahr.

Ich denke, ich werde mich einfach gedulden, bis mein 800XL wieder zurück ist. Ist am Ende die bequemste Lösung.

[DjayBee]

2.) Dass die SIO-Ports von unten offen zugänglich sind. Liegt mal versehentlich was Metallisches drunter -> Kurzschlussgefahr.

dl7ukk hat sich aus einem weißen Sauregurkeneimer ein Stück rausgeschnitten und zwischen die Platine und die Gummifüße geschraubt.

[patjomki]

dl7ukk hat sich aus einem weißen Sauregurkeneimer ein Stück rausgeschnitten und zwischen die Platine und die Gummifüße geschraubt.

Danke für den Tipp (ernst gemeint!).

Aber natürlich musste ich bei dieser Lösung auch etwas Schmunzeln.

[pancio]

Hi MIDI freaks!

I would like to introduce new version of MIDIcar device called MIDIcarSDX. It's combine MIDIcar, MaxFlash128+ and SDX. Due to this combination, MDIcar is ready to work immediately after switching on, and the program necessary for MIDI playback is available on the CAR device paired with SDX. Moreover, is possible to use other than SDX DOS if we re-flashing EEPROM on board. Many thanks to:

gienekp -author of MaxFlash128kB+ cartridge and GAL program.
kkrys - author of very usefully reset modification for MaxFlash128kB+, this feature can enable/disable SDX whenever you want.
PeBe - author of the best MIDIplayer program!

PCB is under production, if prototype will be work I'll add full documentation to Public Domain project web page!

Best Regards,

[pancio]

Hi,

Today PeBe solved problem with MCP which is installed directly on SDX CAR flash memory. From today using MC is so easy! Just plug MC to CART/ECI, turn your ATARI and enjoy music! Thank you PeBe!

Now PeBe is working with some very usefully features on his player. I will say more soon...

[pancio]

When MIDIcar was under development I didn't realize that someone want to have audio output from MIDI on TV/Monitor. Though, best audio should be only on RCA but of course it's possible to have "poor" Audio on DIN-5 Monitor output as well. You need two resistors 43k-47k, 10cm thin wire(like kynar) and 5 minutes with iron tool...

MIDIcar CART/ECI Audio mod

The same way if you want to have audio using MIDIcarPBI...

BR,
pancio

[pancio]

Just for fun...

Our colleague Krystone made three MIDI adaptations for very famous Atari's musics.
Have Fun!

[pancio]

Hi,

I would like to update anyone interested in MIDIcar development... I decided to make new version which will be universal for XL and XE series (600XL include). Additionally, universal mezzanine board for other projects was made (called PBIvo for PBI, and XEvo or XAvo :-) for CART/ECI - in development now). The main goal was achieve smaller size and possibility to use with other equipment connected on the back of Atari. On the picture you will see the old PCB for XL (on the left) and the newest one or right. I hope it's good idea and new approach will be accepted :-)

MIDIcar PBI vs. MIVIcar Vertical PCB's

MIDIcar Vertical front view

MIDIcar Vertical back view

Probably a few pieces will be available as ready to use devices for buyers but... I would like to say that anyone can download the schematic, PCB design (Gerber files) for each version presented and make it themselves, without any restrictions (except for commercial sale). If you are willing to cooperate, do not hesitate and contact me :-)

[skr]

I would like to say that anyone can download the schematic, PCB design (Gerber files) for each version presented and make it themselves, without any restrictions (except for commercial sale). If you are willing to cooperate, do not hesitate and contact me

I can´t find the files, but would love to have them and let PCBGogo produce some boards.
I like the current setup, but it eats a bit too much space...

MIDICAR_Boot.mp4

(8.64 MiB) 12-mal heruntergeladen

[pancio]

Hi skr,

Nice set :-)

I attached required files to the first post in: https://systemembedded.eu/viewtopic.php?p=72#p72

Have fun!

[skr]

Thank you, got it.

Was looking there already but didn´t realize, that you updated the list. Still too early, need more coffee.

[Pmetzen]

Mit dem Gehäuse passt aber die PBI Version MidiCar nicht am Atari 800 XL

[pancio]

Hi,

There is adopted for Atari 800XL without steel plate above and bottom PBI edge. You are second person I know that still have this plates. We modified the case to fill Atari 800XL and 600XL with these plates and made only one piece. If you want to have it I may print it for you.

The longer version is more stable but of course I understand that someone want to have original Atari with full steel cover inside..

[Pmetzen]

Nun wenn man das Gehäuse hinter dem Atari heranführt um es ein zu stecken, stellt man recht schnell fest, dass es immer noch nicht so richtig in den PBI Bus hineinrutscht, da es vorher erst angehoben werden muss.

Dann passt es. Doch das kann dazu führen, das die Kontaktfederleisten des Edge Connectors keinen richtigen Kontakt zum PBI Bus hat. Es muss absolut Waage im PBI Bus stecken damit alle Signale durch kommen.

Ich hatte schon des Öfteren von Problemen gehört obwohl MidiCar im PBI Bus richtig drin steckte, das die Meldung kam, kann MidiCar nicht finden weil es nicht gerade im PBI Bus steckte und keinen richtigen Kontakt bekam.

Das hängt aber auch von der Qualität des Edge Connectors ab. Manche Platinen sind aber auch etwas dünn, so das die Kontakte nicht alle Federn des Edge Connectors berühren wenn es nicht gerade im Slot steckt.

Dann hat man kontakt Probleme. Beim MidiCar könnte es auch nützlich sein wer eine Synth Karte nutzt einen Reset an der Synth Karte durch zu führen, wenn Midiklänge plötzlich merkwürdig klingen. So erspart man sich das herausziehen des MidiCars aus dem Computer.

Denn ein Neustart des Computers löst dieses Problem nicht. Auch das kann dazu führen, das die Meldung kommen kann, kann MidiCar nicht finden, da es ja abgestürzt ist. Man müsste es zurücksetzen können.

Ich lese auch immer von easy to use MIDI player/recorder. Ich konnte bei MPC noch keinen Rekord Funktion finden. Scheint nur ein Player zu sein.

Denn wenn es auch noch eine Rekord Funktion gäben würde, dann könnte man den Pokey wie bei MidiJoy mit einbeziehen oder sogar den PokeyMax.

Denn bei MidiJoy2 ist es nicht mehr möglich aufgenommene Midi Sounds mit einem externen Player aus dem Speicher des Ataris abzuspielen.

Man kann den Midi Song zwar im Speicher des Ataris als binäre Datei abspeichern aber nicht einladen und mit einem externen Player abspielen.

Man müsste die Binäre Datei von MidiJoy in Midi Dateien umwandeln können. Aber das denke ich ist technisch unmöglich.

[pancio]

Just quick comment (will be explained later - I'm going to work)...

MC might be discovered "by accident" - sometime it works, sometime not. MC6850 hasn't special register or ID, so program trying to find something connected on $D1 or $D5 page. Unfortunately not always work properly. It not means that MC is not present. Just try to use give MC's address manually by using /AXXXX key instead automatic.
XXXX - address, example: MCP.COM /AD580


Rest question I'll update later.

BR

[skr]

Just quick comment (will be explained later - I'm going to work)...

MC might be discovered "by accident" - sometime it works, sometime not. MC6850 hasn't special register or ID, so program trying to find something connected on $D1 or $D5 page. Unfortunately not always work properly. It not means that MC is not present. Just try to use give MC's address manually by using /AXXXX key instead automatic.
XXXX - address, example: MCP.COM /AD580


Rest question I'll update later.

BR

Thanks! I was just thinking, there is something wrong with my setup, as I sometimes have that issue. But normally not more than two reboots (mostly just one) are needed.

[pancio]

There is answer to rest question from Pmetzen's post: viewtopic.php?p=20555#p20555

Dann hat man kontakt Probleme. Beim MidiCar könnte es auch nützlich sein wer eine Synth Karte nutzt einen Reset an der Synth Karte durch zu führen, wenn Midiklänge plötzlich merkwürdig klingen. So erspart man sich das herausziehen des MidiCars aus dem Computer.

It depends on MIDI synthesizer and MIDI file. Each synthesizer should has RESET sequence but not anyone has the same. Moreover, MIDI files are wrote with or without RESET procedure. That's the reason why sometime you may hearing not well sounds - it might be happened when you pause/stop play the music. Never happened when you play music one by one from beginning to end.

Ich lese auch immer von easy to use MIDI player/recorder. Ich konnte bei MPC noch keinen Rekord Funktion finden. Scheint nur ein Player zu sein.

You're right. At the moment we do not have a well-functioning MIDI sequencer dedicated to MIDIcar. I have successfully performed some tests, such as capturing data from my AKAI MPK device, but this is more of a proof of concept than actual, usable software. This means that MIDIcar can work as a MIDI sequencer, but we don't have the appropriate software yet. I hope someone does this soon. I will be happy to provide relevant information if anyone wants it.

Denn wenn es auch noch eine Rekord Funktion gäben würde, dann könnte man den Pokey wie bei MidiJoy mit einbeziehen oder sogar den PokeyMax.

I can't promise.. but I know that PeBe is working on that :-)

Denn bei MidiJoy2 ist es nicht mehr möglich aufgenommene Midi Sounds mit einem externen Player aus dem Speicher des Ataris abzuspielen.

Man kann den Midi Song zwar im Speicher des Ataris als binäre Datei abspeichern aber nicht einladen und mit einem externen Player abspielen.

Man müsste die Binäre Datei von MidiJoy in Midi Dateien umwandeln können. Aber das denke ich ist technisch unmöglich.

I don't know how the MidiJoy2 working and how represents data in memory but I assume, it's not general midi file on the output..?

If any other question, I'll be happy to answer :-)

BR,